“My 9 year old grandson told me that Allah is the best God in the world, his Asian friend told him that...He has started to ask questions about dying and Heaven...I have tried to explain that there are many religions and it is up to the individual who they worship so long as you don't try to push it on anyone else....He then asked why some people want to bomb us (his own words)....again I told him that there are some evil people in the world...Is this typical playground talk now???”

“innocent
the snitches made up lies”

“lirs and more lies
they planned nothing”

“guys have a look here
Luke 6:37
and hopefully learn”

“An excellent Article. I can't wait for the day religion has no part in public life and is eradicated from schools. You wouldn't think that as a species we had evolved in to free thinkers!”

“Well you wouldn't find many people disagreeing with you there Johntoe, but remember how all this started; by Mike Wolfe trying to make out that Anglican prayers in council meetings were "somehow" the same as wannabe murderous Islamic fanatics, because "all" religions are ultimately the same - but it's patently a ridiculous proposal to suggest that a long-established and harmless tradition of formal CofE worship is in any way, shape or form equivalent to blowing people up in buses or tube trains or pubs. And this is the issue that I've had all along with this discussion - lack of perspective. Nobody's human rights are endangered by local councillors saying a few prayers, and it's a cheap trick to suggest that they are, and a dirtier trick to try to tie it with fanatical would-be terrorists. Now there are plenty of hard-core fundamentalist Christians in the world especially across the water who'd make your hair stand on end with some of their beliefs, these are people who if they ever got their finger on the button would usher in Armageddon and say alleluia praise be while they were doing it. Total fruitloops, very dangerous people. But that's not the CofE. One thing is not another thing.

I'm not altogether sure what Mike was trying to do, whether he was playing devil's advocate, genuinely trying to get discussion going or actually testing the water for a push to get rid of prayers at Stoke council meetings a la Clive Bone. The latter would certainly raise his left-wing credentials, if that's not too cynical a view (but he is a politician and it's a very low profession.)”

“@ E_D_Wivens
I wasn't referring to you in particular mate, But to religious fundamentalists of all faiths, and that includes Huey Dooey and Louey in the report above,
They and their ilk believe that they are my moral and spiritual superiors, and it matters not that I am a decent chap, who has a good sense of right and wrong etc, Nope, I am a filthy unbeliever and therefore deserve to die, and when I do, I will burn in hell for eternity,

This is NOT a 'dig' at Islam, as one can find plenty of Christians who also believe that their God has given them permission to end the lives of those who offend him, or indeed, don't worship him in the 'proper' way, (Catholics & protestants, etc)

Yeah, no doubt religion has been good for humanity in many ways, but sadly the hatred death and misery it has caused over the centuries, right up to the present day, Far out weighs the good, in my opinion,
I think we would be better off without it,”

“"I AM glad that our local trio of would-be terrorists will remain behind bars for a serious period" - The only two punishments for this degree of crime (planned to be inflicted on OUR OWN COUNTRY FOR GODSAKE) is life imprisonment or death penalty.

They have planned to kill X amount of people, innocent people I may add - so what right do they have to life? eye for an eye... shouldnt be in england and shouldnt have ever got to this stage. Out.”

“Well I think religion is used and has been used for centuries to counternance wars, I also think our open borders invite terrorists to live side by side with us. you do not know who lives next door these days. Anyway I think anyone commiting any type of attack should be charged with Treason end of

All this HUMAN RIGHTS ****, is being used for the benefit of the criminals BUT its against my human rights to have to put up with these people why do we have to pay for there incarceration when they want to kill us cant we just shoot them and be done with it, Oh yeah we cant do that because we will breach there uman rights I thought if you became a terrorist and commited crimes against the state all your rights went out the window with them.

As for religion everyone has a right to believe in green men from mars, evolution or even thia bloke callled god but nobody ever proved the books told the real story. Anyhow its a good book but he died in the end. the quran is a good book it does not condone this type of act. therefore how can they say in the name of Alah because Alah /god or the green men from MARS. did not sanction there actions So they themselves chose to do these acts nothing to do with religion.

its all boils down to one fact England is a cushy number because they allow people like this liberty to walk the streets. They allow EU to bully them, They panic at the thought of dealing with anything face up.”

“"...your blind faith helps you get through life..... I just don't like those who follow ANY religion who think that their faith makes them my moral superior"

This is where you err, Johntoe, and grievously. You were doing well until you started making these assumptions. "Blind" faith? What exactly do you mean by that? If you mean unquestioning slavish devotion, you are very much mistaken my friend. As for your assertion regarding "moral superiority" - who has questioned your morals? Not me, nor anyone else here as far as I know. I'm afraid those comments say a lot more about your own prejudices and preconceptions than they do about anyone else's.

speccy - I thought that might be were you were heading; I was just waiting for your reply so I could be sure :) You do often find that many of the people who shriek the loudest for either camp know the least about it, and take everything quite literally as you say "on faith" without ever bothering to go and find out for themselves.

thetruth - couldn't have put it better myself sir and indeed was going to, but bedtime called. Interestingly I had a real-life experience of exactly that scenario - an American colleague of mine had come over to stay for a few weeks so on a spare day Mrs Wivens and I took him down to London for a day out, and in the afternoon we wendled our way to the Natural History museum. I wondered why he was looking at the dinosaur skeletons with bemusement and so asked what was the matter? To my astonishment he answered that he thought it was incredible that so many people had been fooled by these skeletons and that God had put the dinosaur bones and the rest of the fossil record in the ground as a test (of faith.) I laughed and asked if he was winding me up but he said in all sincerity that was what he genuinely held to be the truth, because the Bible said so. I had only ever considered this as an exercise in argument, never expecting for one moment that anyone might actually really believe it! But apparently it's quite popular across the big water, especially when you get out of the big coastal cities and into the small towns and backwoods. Americans; what can you do?”