Martin Smith: Was all that England pain really like watching Stoke?

“Having been born a few miles from the German border I know what you're saying.

But ... my mother was German, and my father's mother was German,so I have a split "personality" or mixed sympahies anyway.

But I've really liked German national teams at times. Not always, especially not in 1992, but the teams of the Netzer-Wimmer era and the currentteam can play some really lovely football. Never cared much for Bayern, though - until recently.”

“Oops, meant to say "Much as it's every English football fans duty to dislike the Germans".”

“Much as it's every English football fan to dislike the Germans their style of play is far more exciting than Spain's so much as it pains me to say it I hope they win it.”

“Flint you're leaving one spare part out of the "want-to-be-like-Xavi and Iniesta" equation and your concerns of what kids will want to look up to.

In some ways the club is bigger than the national side, because when Barca plays it's with Messi playing as the false no 9, and certainly he is the player most kids will want to be like. and that's just wonderful. No boy for the next 50 years is going to achieve that target, but it won't hurt trying, and they'll have a lot of fun tryin g to emulate that precious triangle.

For Spain's national team they've tried to turn no 4 into no 9, and just by the way Fabregas keeps being dropped and recalled you can tell that in relative terms he's a failure, or Spain have failed to somehow emulate that key spare part.

Which leaves us hoping they will continue to fail, because as eye catching as del Bosque's continuing search for perfection has been, the spanish team has somehow become incredibly boring to watch, and that cant be good.

As I said, I'm hoping Germany will get the chance to upstage them, as their game is much more action-funded. Yet I must confess I doubt they will get there, partly because their defence is poor. And the Italian side is becoming a typical Italian side, hopeless in the beginning, lucky to beat the Irish, and supremely dangerous as competitions go on. I suspect italy will play quite a bit like Chelsea/England tonight, not in terms of skill obviously as the Italians are superior to Parker, Milner and Cole etc, but with the Italian defensive philosophy being reverted to, and with Pirlo taken prisoner in the process.”

“I am tempted to say it's the most boring game I watched over the course of the Euros, yet neither team was doing anything wrong. They were probably just guilty of cancelling each other out, at least for the first 90 minutes, where Portugal's players were essentially playing the same way and at the same skill level as Spain. In extra time they'd run out of steam and resorted to defensive tactics just like everybody else.

It seems Portugal's real time method is the way to survive against the boring brilliance of SPain, though I'm hoping Germany will get the chance to offer a better solution, should they beat Italy. I certainly prefer those two options to the Chelsea/England ultradefensive anti-football style, which unfortunately most teams, including Denmark I regret, seem to resort to when coming up against the mighty minnows or Portugal themselves.

For me Joao Moutinho was the man of the match, a wonderfully skilled player who was this time, especially in the second half, allowed to play further upfield. I would put him on par with Özil in terms of importace for the team, skill and ability.

A future Stoke player from the 26 men on display? None, but Stoke should scout for players from the Iberia, as even those on relative lower level will be able to bring us forward, though I dont see it happening with the current setup.”

“At least Lineker didn't drool over the Spanish players like most commentators/pundits feel the need to do nowadays.

Was thinking about the Spanish style of play at the moment and I've realised what bugs me about it. Their philosophy is to keep the ball and pass the ball into the net. Surely that's going to impact on the future of their country's football? A 5 year old seeing Xavi or Iniesta as an idol will more likely want to be a midfield maestro now rather than what most British kids would want to be which is being the striker. It bugs me trying to eliminate the striker from the team because although from the Spanish perspective they are doing nothing wrong, it is slightly unsporting to sacrifice a goalscorer for another passer in what is already a fantastic passing team. Would prefer the Italians or Germans winning over the Spanish this time just because of this.”

“The comparison between Stokes style and the way England played is one I made a week ago. The difference is that Stoke have had some success in one off knockout games by changing that style most notably against Bolton in the cup semi. England seemed to be incapable of producing anything remotely different and had no attacking plan. Gary Lineker has just made the finest comment any TV pundit has come up with since Brian Clough's heyday. On the 90 minute whistle of the Spain v Portugal game he has just said "Well that was rubbish". What refreshing honesty.”

“Soccerfoot you just don't see what you are do you ? Look at your statement to Flint "the mere fact you mention the idiot johnson, the head name caller himself really shows your true colours". I am the head name caller but you call me an "idiot", how hypocritical is that. You refer to Dap as "Dope", is that not name calling ? How many people have said it was better while you were away, even people who don't normally comment have taken the trouble to point it out. You are incapable of coming on and making your comment without adopting an argumentative stance with someone and by doing that you ruin this site. And as for vitriol, I don't get close to you.”

“If any soccerfoot, that's better. I can see where you're coming from with your argument now. You would have hoped that they'd beat Croatia, despite the Croatians having a good team; just so that they didn't go out as they did. I have to say though that it may have been a different story if they had been paired with Poland, Russia and the Czechs in Group A. Obviously it could have been different for any team if they had been in any of the other groups, but just to make a point that they were paired with the last two world cup winning countries and a top 10-15 country in Croatia. England would have struggled to get out of Ireland's group with a bigger pool of players to pick from.

As for the "how good can they be" not qualifying as often as they could, considering how close they were to the last world cup, plus only a few retirements from the current squad likely to happen in the next two years, I'd wager that they will qualify (or at least be close) for Brazil 2014. For a country like Ireland, that's a success in itself wouldn't you agree?”

“I agree on Nash. It would have been the decent thing to give him a run for all the time he has sat on the bench. As I recall he did get in season before last, but it wouldn't have hurt neither Thomas nor Begovic to have seen a colleague get a look in.”