£28k cost of failed bid to shut Manhattan Bar in Hanley

“Its an abosulte disgrace that the police have pushed this case with very little evidence playing with taxpayers money they can ill afford. The court's judgement and subsequent costs award clearly indicates that this case was ill thought out and a waste of time”

“Warren-Lloyd,

The licensing schedule you describe is something to petition your Local Government about, something for these representatives empowered by you and other voters to make a decision on.
As Redtone said, the Police do a difficult job, but they are the servants of the people, not the masters.

I'm less comfortable on the principle of across the board licensing standards, rather than each case viewed on its own merit. I wouldn't be grateful for the pub near my pensioner mothers house, surrounded by residents to operate until Midnight rather than 11pm; but equally I don't see much difference if people, set in a dedicated leisure quarter of a town or city, away from mainly residential areas can socialise until 3am or 4am rather than 2am.

Agreeing with you on Off-Sales however, I don't think it's a bad thing if we differentiate between those who run out of coffee, milk, bread or other groceries and choose to use the 24 hour Supermarkets, and those who have to make a cheap alcohol purchase at 5am.”

“We appear to be as one Potter_Stone. We need tougher Policing and higher fines. Its no good fining someone £60 for being drunk and disorderly when it costs more than that to process the offender and lock them up for the night.”

“Thanks Semis,

Again I agree with you, we don't need lawless parts of this or any town, but I believe that the Police can already arrest, and the courts can already fine people for being drunk, causing criminal damage; I'm not sure what the technical name for peeing in the street it, but I'm pretty sure that's an offence too.
They can also arrest people who serve those who are drunk with more alcohol.

We need real world enforcement on offenders, perhaps if the police operated to stricter policy, and did peruse a tighter line with the individual offender, then a message would get through?

These drinkers have after all paid for the right to be arrested and have at least a night at her Majesty's pleasure to contemplate on their actions, if the figures on Government income from alcohol taxation are correct.
Or Police budgets could be eased by re-cycling cash or labour fines imposed on the convicted back into the Police costs ?
E.g. Community service attendees made to clean the local Police Cars or tend the Stations grounds.

Looking at this case - If what I've read is correct - the Police have spent some of their limited resources challenging the Council in the Court, rather than using that money to Police the streets.

It's not their decision to make - which bars and to what time they are to trade - it's the Citizens, via the National and Local Government.

No doubt it wasn't the dedicated Officers at ground level who have tried to make this jump from Law Enforcers to Policy Makers, and frittered money in the process; this will be some desk bound golf club member with a chauffeur driven car.”

“"Potter_Stone" I commend you for your informative work to produce the information that you have posted.
The point is that too many clubs are serving people with alcohol who clearly should not be drinking any more because they are completely intoxicated. The problem then spills over onto the street where the Police have to "mop-up" the trouble. Many police get injured and whilst they are on the streets trying to contain this problem, they are handicapped in dealing with other crimes. They can not be in 2 places at once. Some of our city centre streets are "no go" areas at the weekend, that can not be right.”

“Your right Semis, costs from drunken behavior should be charged to someone.
But shouldn't this be the person who pee'd in the doorway, rather than the Supermarket they purchased a drink in ?
Speeding fines for drivers don't get sent to Ford, Toyota and VW dealerships do they ?

Police Costs ?
The National Police Budget is circa £14 Billion
The drinks industry in the UK is already a major tax payer, VAT and Duty on alcohol provide the state directly with circa £15 Billion in revenue annually.

Something like 650,000 people are employed in the drinks Manufacturing or retailing industry within the UK, providing additional income from PAYE and NI.
All businesses including pay Business Rates direct to the local council; licenses cost additional monies.

The leisure industry is less of a drain on Police resources than one could think - from these figures it looks more like it bankrolls Law and Order for the rest of society.

Football Stadiums ?
I don't believe there is an extra C&E Duty on football tickets - just VAT, which is why I suspect they are charged additional money to Stadiums for policing major events in comparison to

From Googling there are actually moves in place to add additional charges - for policing etc - on a local rather than nationally gathered tax basis. "Late Night Levy" is the buzzword.


(Figures gleaned from LSE, HM Gov and BII websites, relate to various 2009-2011 info)”

“"Petetap", I was not specifically talking about this one club but all clubs and town centres up and down the country. I stand by my comments because it goes on every weekend.”

“@petetap its the council who set the policing budget.”

“A few points

1) Razza - It wasnt the council who funded this it was the Police and the Police who must pay
2) Semis - you mention ". Why should I or you as a tax payer have to foot the bill for drunken idiots wanting to fight, break windows, pee in door ways, puke in the street " - fact of the matter is as was stated in the report most of the evidence presented by the police was nothing more than heresay and if you ahd been in court you would understand there was very little evidence.
3) The courts do not go against the police lightly. It is extremely unusual for such a large cost award to be levelled against police, and as such this shows that the Poiice should never have wasted time and taxpayers money bringing this case in the first place”

“The cost of policing any town centre anywhere in the country is costing the tax payer millions in police hours and millions in tax payers money. Why should I or you as a tax payer have to foot the bill for drunken idiots wanting to fight, break windows, pee in door ways, puke in the street etc. etc. If people want to drink until 3 or 4am that is there prerogative but do not expect the tax payer to control the carnage that ensues.
Football clubs have to pay thousands of pounds for the police service so why should these clubs not pay. The report mentions the sale of Mercedes and Jaguar cars. Must be making good profits some of which should go towards paying the police.”